Episode #31

Laura Dawn: Yeah, so nice to have you on the show. Drew, thanks so much for meeting with me today. It’s such a pleasure. You know, I’ve been listening to your music for years now. And so it’s really an honor to be able to have a real-time conversation with you and learn more about the man behind the music.

Drew Satsang: Yeah, I’m so grateful for you having me.

Laura Dawn: So maybe we could just start, you know, this is The Psychedelic Leadership Podcast. Maybe the starting point for this conversation is exploring the role that psychedelics have played for you and your life, especially you know where you’re at right now. You’re launching a new album. That is so exciting. I’ve been listening to it on repeat. Yeah, let’s maybe just start there.

Drew Satsang: Well, they’ve been a part of the story since puberty, but it was, you know, when I was young, I had a very Hunter S. Thompson, Ken Kesey. I always, the catchphrases that I used Hunter S Thompson and The Grateful Dead is my moral compass for a long time. So when I was young, you know psychedelics, it was just a really playful, exploratory thing. And I was exploring music, I was exploring you know, lots of different literature and counterculture and all of its facets. So it was just always kind of present, you know, I was pretty drawn to them. But I feel like a huge turning point for me as, you know, I was a pretty severe alcoholic and struggled with a lot of different addictions. And I would, I went to treatment, I did the AA thing and what kept happening was I would be sober for a few months, and then I would relapse and then I’d be sober for a few months and then I’d relapse. And when I was sober was just kind of this white-knuckling. You know, like doing everything I could not drink. There was no like homeostasis.

And I had come upon, I was listening to Terence McKenna lecture. While I was cleaning, this little shitty apartment that I lived in, and I’ve loaned a friend of mine, a piece of climbing gear that he had, lost on a climb, he had to bail on the climb with it. And I was just like, you know, man, pay me whenever it was. Listen to this, Terence McKenna lecture weeks later. And, you know, he was advocating the use of five grams of mushrooms by yourself in the dark. Well, when my friend that had lost a piece of climbing gear, hit me up and said, Hey, man, I don’t have any money, but I just come upon an ounce of mushrooms, would you like to come over and just grab a handful of them? So I said, you know, the timing of it was pretty weird as I was like, had just listened to that. That part of the lecture. So I said, Ye, and I ate them. And it was both the best and worst night of my life, It wasn’t a pleasant experience. But I’ve not drunk alcohol since that night, I confronted my childhood, I came from a really abusive, traumatic upbringing.

And I think it was the, I look at it as the beginning of me going, Okay, here’s this cycle, this familial cycle that I’ve been in. And it’s time to get to work. So ultimately, I, whether it’s the story of a sad song, or me as a man, or me taking my role as a parent, can kind of trace everything back to that night. So since then, I’ve used them quite a bit more responsibly than I did that night. But it’s a really interesting thing because everything for me kind of comes back to that evening.

Laura Dawn: That’s wonderful. And, yeah, there are so many questions that I want to ask you, you know, do plant medicines play a role in your music and your creative process. Are they a source of inspiration for you?

Drew Satsang: Yeah, I think they’re kind of an inspiration to me. And everything that I do, you know, as I said, I’m a pretty strong advocate of responsible use now. Whereas previously, you know, responsible is the furthest thing from my mind, but yeah, to me, it’s this plant medicines are just always a reminder to me that I’m not my body. And more recently, the experiences that I keep having is just how serious what I’m doing is, how serious this music thing is. And that I was chosen to do it, you know, and that was during this last Iowaska ceremony that I did. That was the big takeaway of like, oh, man, this isn’t just something I’m doing. This is like my divine purpose, this is what I was put here to do. And all of the heavy responsibility that comes with it, but as well as the ridiculousness that comes to it, but yeah, to answer your question, in short, yeah, I feel like, directly or indirectly, I feel like plant medicine is kind of a part of everything that I do.

Laura Dawn: Yeah, like more integrated into all aspects. Yeah, I’d love to just talk about the musical journey. I mean, I found you through the album, The story of you that played a really big impact in my life. I love that album. What was the turning point for you where things really shifted in your music, and you were like, Okay, I’m dedicating my life to this?

Drew Satsang: Well, I had been toying around with it for some time, you know, of wanting to do it since I was a kid, you know, it was always what I knew I wanted to do. But you know, as you get older, you have to get a job. And you have to do all the things to maintain your life. And post, soon after that, that mushroom trip, I took a trip to Nepal. And when I was in Nepal, the goal of the trip for me was, or the pinnacle, I guess you could say was to get to the top of this past called Renjo Pass, it’s 20,000 feet. But at the top of that, you can see Everest, you can see all of the tallest mountains in the world. And when I got up there, I wrote what later became the thrill of it all. And on the walk down that day was when I just started being like, okay, man, well, Renjo Pass is, as the official middle of the trip, right was like, Okay, well, now you’re at the halfway point of the trip.

So the realization of like, dude, you have to go home, kind of set in. So they just, I was, that whole walk down that day was just like, Okay, well, shit, what am I going to do? And, you know, by the time I made it to the monastery was like, what’s music? Dude, it’s always been music. So I spent the second half of that trip really kind of mapping out what that was going to look like. And, yeah, I pretty much just made the decision, like, I’m going to go all in, there are parts of it that are going to suck, you know, people are going to tell me that it’s not going to work, I’m going to think it’s not going to work. But ultimately, it’s what I have to do, though, just, Nepal was the big Yeah, it was the big turning point. And then when I got home, and I just went right to work.

Laura Dawn: How do you balance the sense of discipline with devotion, you know, that it really does, like, takes so much discipline and to show up and as an artist, as a creative, there is this notion that, you know, we have to dedicate to the craft, and how is that path of discipline and really, like spiritual devotion, in a sense been for you?

Drew Satsang: Well, you know, I think, for me, music has given me everything, you know, whether like, you know, the super tangible things, right, like, it keeps my family fed and, in a house, and, you know, I have a truck and a motorcycle, and you know, it pays for daycare. So there are all those tangible things, but then on the more like meta side of it. It has just always been there for me, you know, whether, you know, yeah, whether my dad had just kicked the shit out of me, or I was homeless or strung out, or going through a breakup, you know, Music has always been there. So I think there’s a conscious and a subconscious thing where I’m just always showing up for this thing that’s never left my side. And then I also realize just what an insane gift it is, to call music. My job.

So it’s, although it is a lot of work, and I pride myself on discipline in all areas of my life, it’s kind of easy to show up for it. You know, it’s given me everything, you know, music is it’s given me everything. My worldview, my, like I said, the tangible and intangible thing. So it’s I’m just constantly paying it back. You know, it’s how I look at it. I’m just we’re it’s a reciprocal relationship. The more I give it the more it gives me.

Laura Dawn: Right? And I know you dedicate yourself to Jujitsu as well. You dedicate your discipline on the mat. I know what that’s like, I’ve also was raised as an athlete. And so I’m just curious though your like inner relationship to discipline? Is it critical? Is it soft? Is that compassionate? You know, like, Where’s that line of like, drill sergeant versus like, this is my love.

Drew Satsang: It’s funny, I don’t know where that line is. I would say it’s pretty critical. I find great power in you know, opening up my eyes at 5:30 in the morning, when the alarm goes off and going fuck, dude, I just want to go back to sleep. And going, No, get your ass out of bed, drink the water. Go to the bathroom, go to the gym. How I feel after I do that is it’s just like, okay, man. It’s 7:30. And I’ve already conquered something. And I’ve already conquered myself, you know, but that little voice that says No, stay in bed. Take the easy route, relax. You know, by 730 in the morning, I’ve already taken that voice and smashed its face into the dirt. So I feel like I start my day with a victory. I’ve already won. So, yeah, it’s not very kind. My inner voice is not very kind. But I appreciate it. I appreciate it. It’s not an abusive voice. But yeah, it’s definitely not. It’s not graceful. You know, yeah, it’s pretty, pretty hard. But I, again, I just, I look at the value. And the blessing that it is to have enabled body and how many people wish they could roll out of bed and go lift weights or wish they could go punch and kick their friends or wish they could grapple. So I just don’t want to waste that blessing. So yeah, much like music. I’m like, dude if I was given this able body, who am I to not go push it to an extreme every day?

Laura Dawn: Yeah, so from this time in Nepal, you know, and people have no idea, you know, what it really takes on such levels of discipline to achieve any kind of critical threshold of success. So it’s like, you hold this vision of being successful having a certain level of influence, touring, you know, having a critical mass of listeners for your music, and then you hit that threshold, you know, and then one day, you’re like, wow, okay, I’ve arrived. And now you’re very much in that in that place. You know, I think you’ve had, gosh, how many millions of views or listens on Spotify, which is just, oh, incredible. And so being where you’re at now, and looking back, you know, what have you really learned on the journey? And what would you tell yourself with what you know, now, and for the people who are really taken that climb? Right now? What’s your best advice for yourself in the past, from your future self?

Drew Satsang: To keep going? You know, first I think you got to always be honest with yourself, you know, like, I love martial arts. But I have no delusions of grandeur that if I were to try and make a run as a professional fighter that it wouldn’t go well. So I think having like a realistic view, but for me, there’s, you know, especially with music, there are all of these phases that feel impossible, but they’re never going to end right. Like, when I first started touring, it was playing three-hour bar gigs, to people that weren’t even paying attention to me. And I always just had the mantra of this is just the phase that you’re in. This is just part of the story. So there’s a lot of short-term sacrifice for long-term gain. And I think we live in a culture that demands immediacy, right, that says, Well, I want to be a successful musician, so it should happen. And, and people point to the stories of, you know, a Justin Bieber, someone that’s like, well, this kid just put stuff on YouTube. And then he became the biggest star in the world. And it’s like, Yeah, but for 99.9% of artists, that’s not how it goes.

So I’ve just always had the very, like 70s Rock and Roll viewpoint of my career, which is no man, we’re going to grind, and we’re just going to tour and make good records. And some of the records might do well, some of them won’t. And that it’s all just part of the story. You know, this is I want to do this music thing. Like I feel like I’m just getting started. Like, to me, the new record feels like the beginning of my career, like the rest of it was just like building this foundation. And now I feel like I just found myself. So there’s no you know, the end goal is to Do it forever. There’s no like, Okay, well, once I want a Grammy, or I’m here, then I’ve done you know, there’s no Renjo Pass, if you will, it’s just like, no, the goal is to just be able to continue to do it forever. So yeah, to me, the advice is to zoom out, you know, and just look at everything as a phase, whether it’s with Music, or Martial Arts or Yoga, you know, I think Yoga is a big one that I always think of, you know, or feel like, well, I can’t do yoga, because I’m not very flexible. It’s like, Well, yeah, you dummy. That’s why you do yoga. It’s like, and I think, you know, I’m the guy that’s in yoga class that, like, looks around and it’s like, holy shit, how are these people doing this stuff?

And it’s like, well, they do it all the time. So it’s like, that persistence, and that, discipline of showing up and just being like, Okay, I’m playing the long game. So, you know, today is just another day in the story, rather than, you know, in the comparison game, I think that’s another one that really gets artists. As you’re looking around, and it’s so easy to go, Well, I think I’m better than this person at this craft, and why are they so much farther ahead than me? It’s like, well, because that’s their story. And yours is yours. You know, but persistence, I think it’s just the biggest one, it’s just not quitting. You know, so many people quit when it’s hard.

Laura Dawn: I also, whenever I think about this for myself, I always think, you know, tell my younger self to just like, enjoy where you’re at, enjoy the phase, you know, it’s just like, there’s always such as a just desire to be five steps ahead, you know?

Drew Satsang: Well, it’s, it’s funny. So I grew up, I always point to this story. Like, you know, I grew up such a huge Michael Franti fan, because I love Folk music. I loved Punk Rock, I loved Hip Hop, and he was just a perfect fucking amalgamation of all of those things. You know, his album Yell Fire changed my life. So if you would have told high school me that I would do, you know, an entire year on the road with Michael Franti, and he would become a dear friend. I would not have believed you. But when I look back at that summer and 2017 of touring with him for a whole year, I wasn’t present for any of it. I was stressed out about Okay, well, we’re playing in DC. I wonder if we’re going to sell tickets when we come back to DC by herself? Are these people even going to like us? Like, how many new fans did we win? What are we going to do when this tour is over what’s next? What’s next? And oddly enough, Franti, and I would sing every night would sing a song together called Enjoy Every Second. And that was the name of the fucking song. That was the chorus of the song Enjoy Every Second. And I didn’t, I wasn’t present for any of it.

And now that I can look back on that and go, fuck, dude, you weren’t even there for that. It was literally the turning point of my career was going on tour with him. And I wasn’t even there for it. I was so stressed out about what was coming next. So I won’t do that anymore. You know, I’m just here. I’m here now. I’m fucking here for all of it.

Laura Dawn: How was this album different for you?

Drew Satsang: I think the biggest thing was I haven’t been left the fuck alone in a long time. And COVID pulled the ebrake on our industry. And I know it was really hard for some people. It wasn’t hard for me, it was the greatest blessing in my life. I have lost pretty solid touch with who I was outside of music, you know when you’re touring. As much as we were touring, and constantly working on a new album and constantly trying to build this thing. I wasn’t Drew, anymore. I was Satsang. I was this entity and this product and this thing. And I really just wanted to be a guy again, you know, I wanted to be a dad. And a fighter, and a fisherman and all these things that I was before music took over. So for me, it was kind of a return because the story of you was written during Nepal and all of these outdoor escapades before anything was anything I was just writing songs because I loved writing songs and I was just telling my story. And this new record is that, you know, there was no plan, there was no like, narrative, you know, I wasn’t trying to do anything other than just be who I was. And I feel like I lost that for a few years in the middle of this whole thing. So, this record is such a big deal to me because I just feel more myself than I’ve ever been.

And with this time off, I was going to therapy, I was using psychedelics again, I was getting out on the river, I just became a guy, again, you know, just a guy, rather than, you know, Satsang, I just got to be Drew again for a year. So all the music just came from this really centered place, you know, of love, and home. So it just feels really good and pure.

Laura Dawn: Do you still struggle with, I mean, this process of like, coming home to yourself, I heard you, I think it was an on YouTube video that I watched where you were saying, you know, you felt like at a certain point that you were playing the same songs and that you had this like expectation from your audience to create certain kinds of music, and that put you in this box and this process of just stepping into like, owning your authenticity. And like, you know, I want to ask you about what that means to you. And also like this fear of being seen, like, do you still experience a fear of like, wow, people are going to see who I really am? And will they still love me? You know, as this person that I am?

Drew Satsang: Yeah, and no, you know, as an artist, there’s always this fear of like, are they going to like what I made. But as a person, no, I’m pretty fearless now. I used to have this weird, unwavering desire to be understood. And in the last year, I really lost it. I don’t really care to be understood anymore. You know, the whole thing when we were making this record was that the label was really cool. And they let me do pretty much whatever I wanted. And I had grace and the man that made this documentary that we’ve chopped up into these episodes, and that takes all of our pictures. He’s a dear friend of mine. And he just came and lived with me for three weeks. And then came and hung out with us while we made the record. And the goal was, how I just want to show everyone who I really am. So if they don’t like me, they can just stop listening now. And if they do, then they’ll become more invested, you know, they’ll go okay, I really vibe with this dude. So I really want to listen to his music now. The goal is for me to just show who I am and then land just be 100% vulnerable. And you know, I meet people all the time that you know, being an artist is a tricky thing, because people’s only way to relate to you, they don’t know me, so they’re just listening to the music.

So they have the story in their head of who I am, you know, so when they meet me, they have this idea of who I am. And I wanted to make the film to show because I always it was a joke in the van of like, if people on the road that I met knew that, you know, I was spending the day before that showed an MMA gym, you know, fighting all day, and lifting weights, and then, you know, on my break in between tours, I was going hunting. And you know, if they knew who I was, they would be it would be such a trip. So he has so the goal is to just show everyone who I am. But yeah, to answer your question, is an artist Yes, because I don’t think that’ll ever go anywhere. It’s such a scary thing when you make a record because that’s always the thing in the back of your head is like fuck. What if they don’t like it? No one listens to it. But as a person no, I don’t really care if people get me or don’t.

Song: When I no longer fear the unknown because I know what I am here for, I keep on trading on my own path. Keep on Learning from my present and past, I no longer need validation because my story is long, and I know that I have lessons to learn. Keep my eyes open each step I earn. No need for me to feel alone. Because I got a place that I call home, every single road travel, every single new place, I come back home they accept me with grace when I know that I was meant to be here. And I know that I was born into fear, but I was there down in the lion’s den. Because I know in my heart, I am one of them. They realize in the facets of everything that we see, that are telling us to be scared, we know we are always free. I’, letting go of the things that don’t serve me anymore. Because I am holy and sacred and righteous, and I deserve to be here and so do you. Said I deserve to be here.

Laura Dawn: What has been the key takeaway from them the medicines in this year, as you’re working in therapy and working with plant medicines, what would you say is like the big, big messages, the big downloads that you’ve been receiving?

Drew Satsang: Well, so I had never done Iowaska before. And I went down a couple of months ago and sat in the ceremony. And it was you know, 1000 times more than what I thought it was going to be. You know, the big download night one was, we all come from purity and love. But we live in a world that is designed to make us forget, because if we forget then we become distracted, and inside of that distraction, there’s lots of money to be made. So there was this huge wave of like, I was being shown all of this beautiful thing. I had a moment where I was like back when my son was born. And that moment when Malachi was born, that just heart exploding love and then playing music on stage and then laying a bed of all these beautiful things. And then it got really dark. Because this voice kept saying. Do you remember it, do you remember it? And I was like, Oh, yeah, I remember all of this. And then it was like, Well, why do you keep forgetting? I was like, Oh shit, I don’t know, you know, why do I keep forgetting that this is where we come from.

So night one of the ceremonies was just this big, huge reminder that it’s all love. And that we have to Remember To Remember. And so that’s the big thing. For me. That’s my mantra now remember to remember. And night two was, diving into this whole purpose thing and this music thing. And then it didn’t belong to me anymore. And that it wasn’t this thing I was doing, it was a calling that I was answering. So it was this big heavy download of what a responsibility it was and how serious it was. And, you know, I hadn’t played shows with the full band. And we knew we were going to red rocks and doing all that. So that came up really heavy. And I was really scared about being seen again. I am coming out of this hibernation having to go back on the road and back on stage and being the center of attention again. And it scared me. But I think the big takeaway was that this thing isn’t? As I said, it’s not a job. It’s not a that’s what I’m here to do. So that I have to answer it, I have to answer to that calling. So means showing up when I don’t want to show up. Sometimes it means doing things that I might not want to do that are for other people. And then it’s a role of service and that the more I show up for that service, the more that service will show up for me.

I mean that’s really it for me is that everything is love. That’s where we come from, that’s where we’re going. And then I’m actually inside of my purpose right now, which is like I think a human. That’s like the ultimate thing you know, there’s like this great heartbreak of people searching for their purpose and going What am I here for? What am I here for and what a fucking blessing that I know. And not that I’m not just that I know what my calling is, but that I’m in it, you know? So I’m really excited. You know, and for me, that’s just it is why I’m so grateful for plant medicine is that veil of those things that I’ve mentioned before, right? The distractions? I mean, you know, no one pulls up Instagram when they’re in the middle of, you know, a psychedelic experience. Like, no, you can, you know, that that’s bullshit, you know, no one wants to watch the news, because you know that that’s not it, you know. So I’m forever grateful for those medicines just kind of calling me back to the fire, as it were, to sit with what is really real.

Laura Dawn: Have they helped to sort of fine-tuning your perception field of awareness into more like energy and frequency and subtlety? Have you noticed a shift in sort of, like, where that the whispers of inspiration come from? And like what to pay attention to? And where to direct your focus to sort of nourish your vessel, your creative vessel? I mean, has that shifted at all?

Drew Satsang: Yeah, you know, on a good day I’m really in that I would say a big thing that it’s given me as compassion instead of judgment. I’m not good at that every day. But on the days that I’m in tune, I am, you know, that was another big revelation I had during the ceremony. You know, my wife is a psychotherapist that specializes in trauma. And I realized what her superpower is she doesn’t see angry person yelling at her, she sees the unheard child and the adult yelling at her, you know. So I definitely feel like I have an insight into what real compassion looks like. And if you’ve ever been to an Iowaska ceremony and nobody’s there for a good time. Everybody’s there to do work, you know. And, you know, I was gone back and forth. The second night, between crying and laughing because I would look around and there you know, there’s a mechanic a stay-at-home mom, a shitload of soldiers. Just all of these different walks of life, that we’re trying to heal, you know, that we’re there to heal, and work.

And what overwhelmed me and completely break my heart that the world is hurting so much. But then I’d be filled with this joy and this laughter of like but look at us all our titles. And what we do in the world doesn’t matter because we’re here doing the work. And that’s the most beautiful thing in the world. So it’s given me compassion, of that age-old thing, right, that everyone you meet is fighting a battle that you know nothing about. And hearing people open up and share what they were going through. It’s just like, you know, maybe Yeah, makes me tear up right now just thinking about it, that it’s like, your mechanic could be being rude to you because his son died last week, you know, and you have no idea, you have no idea what people are going through. So really, it’s given me this kind of sustained state of compassion, which is something that I used to lack. Because I think I had such a hard life that the way I related to the world is, you know, well, life’s hard, get tough. You know, we all got shit, rather than like, Oh, my God, you know, like, everyone’s going through this thing. And all they need is a hug most of the time, you know.

Laura Dawn: I mean, everyone’s just trying to make sense of what it means to be alive on this planet right now. There was a quote that I saw recently that I had posted something, it was something along the lines of like, the more you know, someone’s story, the more your judgments of them fall by the wayside. You know, it’s like, the more you get human and that’s this time we live in such a time of division, where we’re just like hurling at shit at across the ridge. You know, where it’s such a time of separation. And I do truly believe that plant medicines are here to build bridges, you know, to mend these times of division. And compassion is such a big part of that, like refraining from judgment for just a moment to see the humaneness in all of us.

Drew Satsang: Yeah, you know, Michael Franti says, I think that everyone would love every person they need if they heard their story, you know because unless you know someone’s whole story, you just don’t have context. Like you said, I think, you know, people life is so hard. And it’s so unforgiving at times. And if you grew up as I did, you’re surrounded by no empathy. So your worldview and your prefrontal cortex are formed under the constant threat of violence and this belief that no one is here to help me. No one’s coming to save me. I’m an island. I am you know, it is me. I’m this fucking thing. And I go into the universe which to think of yourself as the center of the universe is just the wildest thing in the world. It’s such a silly way to go through life. But typically that’s what we see with people that are hurt. They feel like life is happening to them. You know, they’re not an active participant everything is just happening to them.

And, again, I think that’s what’s so magical about psychedelics is they zoom out and they go, No, it’s happening for you and with you, not to you. So you get to be a part of this dance rather than a collision all the time, you know. But we also live in a time you know one thing that I always that I see a lot of is. We’re losing a lot of community, especially what we saw during COVID Was everyone was isolated. So you mix that with the political shitstorm that was happening, and it will go. People were stripped of any sense of community, so they started finding their community and validation online of, you know me and my phone or me and my computer that’s how I’m interacting with the world, which is a scary, scary way to interact with the world. And like you’re saying. It’s very easy to say mean things to someone on a computer, very easy to hurl shit at someone through a computer or a phone, because my friend Mark Murphy the lead singer of  Wiki Foot, broke this down really well, he said, When you stand up to a bully, or you stand up for something that you believe in, to somebody’s face there’s an endorphin rush. Because inside of your body, you know that when I say this, this person could adversely react, and maybe they hit me in the face, so there’s some mild threat of violence or confrontation there.

So the endorphin rush that happens when you stand up for your point and stand up to the bully is because you’re facing this threat of violence and saying well, I’m speaking on behalf of righteousness. In the face of adversity and what the computer does is it gives people the ability to say their thing, without any sort of threat, you know, there’s no threat of actual confrontation or violence there whatsoever but they still get the endorphin rush. So whether we see that, you know, enveloping it through, Kancil culture, or through extremist politics, it’s just an absolute shit show and we’re in, I’m quite fearful of, where this thing is going to lead us, you know, this validation via the internet, because it’s a weird thing, it’s a weird place to go to look for validation. And it’s quickly becoming the new norm.

Laura Dawn: Yeah, I was recently reading something that someone was writing about statistics in terms of like reactivity when people read like a comment versus when you hear someone’s voice, and that when you hear someone’s voice it actually is much easier to act, to connect with them but when you read you just like imbue what you’re reading with your

Own fucked up narrative that’s angry and, you know, and that it’s so much easier to just like throw shit at each other just because everyone’s like, angrily writing and like commenting on the things that we don’t you know, agree with and it’s just, and I even see it in the psychedelic space.

Drew Satsang: Well there’s no facial expression, there’s no tone.

Laura Dawn: Yeah, it’s so interesting and so, you know, when you see that, so how have you, how do you like to stand up for the things that you believe in from a place of kindness and not from a place of anger, you know, I mean people look up to you, you’re an influencer, I mean there’s no doubt about that. So it’s like how much responsibility do you feel to stay rooted in center and kindness and communicating from a place of like nonjudgment?

Drew Satsang: Well I think the big thing is, I had a really interesting experience this year because I throughout the course of the election, and all of that, you know, since this time last year, I made it a point to make my public opinion that we should talk to people that we disagree with. Because I previously was on the camp of if you’re a Trump supporter I don’t have anything to say to you, there’s nothing you could tell me that would justify you voting for that psychopath. And through both Jujitsu through just living in Montana. I started seeing that I really connected with and loved a lot of people with different political views than me. Because politics makes up a pretty small portion of conversation if you’re keeping it to parenting. What do you like to do with your time? What’s your dad like, you know, what kind of food do you like? When we keep the conversation and things that matter. It’s pretty easy to get along with most people.

So I made it. I made a huge point to make my voice one of challenging people to talk with people that they didn’t agree with. So, in that I had JP Sears come on my podcast, who by the way is one of the sweetest human beings on the planet. I agree, with some of JP’s stuff. I don’t agree with all of it. But my thing was, you seem like a sweet enough guy. Why don’t you come on the podcast, and, you know, we hit it off, I really enjoyed talking with him and when I posted his picture in that I had had him on the podcast, the hate that followed for a couple of weeks there I’d never been. I had never really been reamed on the internet before. And it was pretty hard. And it challenged a lot of my beliefs because there were things said to me by people. I was just watching people hop on it’s like folks at some bandwagon right, some of them were people that I’d helped that I called festivals on their behalf to get their band booked, that I’d let open for us. People that I had been really kind to that were getting there like social merit points by hopping on this, fuck me bandwagon.

Also, you know, as someone that’s fairly skilled in violence, I just grew up in a place where you had to answer for most of what you said, I just couldn’t comprehend it because I was like, Man, if I were standing in front of you, not on any planet at any time would you say that, but because you’re 1000 miles away behind your phone, you feel completely comfortable saying that. So is this weird internal battle of, you know, the Eastern philosophy and my brain being like, they know not what they do, why would you give this any attention whatsoever that’s clearly their hurt, this is them this has nothing to do with you. You know, and then from the kid from the Dogpatch in Des Moines, that’s like, Okay, well, next time I’m in Minneapolis, I know where you work and I’m going to pull up we’ll see what you got to say.

So it was a tricky thing for me, but ultimately was, you know, and oddly enough the person that really talked me through it was JP, where he’s just like, oh man, you know, I just couldn’t imagine hearing someone say something that even if I disagree with, I’d be like okay well I’m done listening to you. I’m not going to listen to your podcast anymore because I clearly, you know, I don’t vibrate with what you’re talking about. What I wouldn’t do is then make it my life goal for two weeks to try to destroy you, You know, that’s a weird dark thing. But again, like we’re saying you know I think it just says a lot about where we’re at as a culture and then I really moved again after especially after the Iowaska thing. It just moved me in such a place of compassion because I was like, think about the hurt living within someone that goes, Okay. You know, I’m going to smash this person because I disagree with them, I’m going to do everything I can to ruin their life, you know how craz