Episode #28

Episode #28: Amanda Laine & Harry Taylor Psychedelic Leadership Podcast.

Duration: 01:22:07

Laura Dawn: My name is Laura dawn, and you’re listening to episode number 28 of the Psychedelic Leadership Podcast, featuring my conversation with co-founders of Inward Breathwork Amanda Laine and Harry Taylor.

Harry Taylor: We just we’ve come to realize breath, as the absolute foundation to everything else that arises in our life, it is that most basic unit of lifeforce, which allows for everything else to flourish. Our physiologies, which control our state of consciousness, how we feel about ourselves, right now at this moment, compared to everything else. Do we feel good and grounded and centered. So we made that realization that it was really the breath, that was at the root of all of our experiences, but it made sense for us to really focus on the breath.

Amanda Laine: When you don’t have enough co2 In your bodies when you’re exhaling a lot through the active breath sessions, your co2 level drops that limits the ability of your blood to release oxygen to your organs. So, blood now is not being released as much to your brain. And that is the state of the prefrontal cortex, which is that thinking analytical, you go with your mind that chatter, chatter, chatter mind is able to quiet. So through this really upgrade your breathing, you’re able to then enter a state of bliss.

Harry Taylor: Of all these things, stress, our bodies, but in turn, activates the pathway of health to deal with stress and for the rest of the day.

Amanda Laine: There’s so many like reading, you know, practices, but the real main ones that are needed to learn is just actually having breath awareness and just like, actually at the moment, noticing how you’re breathing because most people don’t even pay attention to that and that right there is the biggest missing piece, you know you can lay down and do breathwork practices all day long but if you’re not actually bringing it into your day to day nine to five while you’re actually working or driving or eating or whatever you’re doing, then, that’s it.

Laura Dawn: We have access to this simple yet profound. An incredibly powerful tool that’s quite literally right under our noses. It’s so easily missed and so often overlooked. Yet, the breath. This lifeforce that moves through us is so easy to access at any given moment. And when we choose to bring our awareness to it. The simple act of paying attention to the breath can radically transform our lives. And although breathwork has been around for 1000s of years you know which is really just exploring specific breathing techniques, bringing conscious awareness to how we breathe. It’s now making quite the comeback, especially in the psychedelic space, which can largely be attributed to Stan Groff’s work and the development of Holotropic breathwork, although that being said, there are a lot of different breathwork styles And a lot of different practices that are definitely worth exploring.

So I invited Amanda and Harry onto the show to talk about some of these various styles, and they are the co-founders of Inward Breathwork the world’s leading on-demand breathwork platform combining the most experienced facilitators in the world, across, ancient and New Age techniques, including pranayama, Wim Hof and Wu taiko methods, just to name a few. And so they came on to talk about the science of breathwork and how understanding these underlying mechanisms can help support us in accessing our breath as well as understanding how we can manage our stress more effectively. And really, I learned a lot from them. During this conversation. So there was really a lot of great information that they shared, as well as some practical breathing tips for when you need a more immediate tool for reducing stress. Like when you might find your heart racing in those critical moments when you’re speaking in front of a crowd or on a podcast or leading an online workshop or whatever the case may be.

And whether you’re a leader or not we all navigate stressful situations in our lives, you know, we don’t have to go very far until a trigger strikes, and those are great opportunities as Harry speaks to you know to become conscious of our physiology and become conscious of our breath, you know that those moments of the trigger are actually powerful portals to our own awakening to our own liberation. And so I also interviewed one of the other co-founders of Inward, Robbie bent, a few weeks ago, although we only spoke about the eight days he spent in darkness, which was also such a great conversation that I really enjoyed. And so I co-moderate some really fun clubhouse rooms on Monday nights with Robbie and a few other awesome people called the Psychedelic Deep Dive. So if you want to tune into that or some of the other weekly rooms that I host. You can find me on Clubhouse at live free Laura D.

Okay, so if you are new to breathwork and you’re feeling a little overwhelmed by the options or you’re just unsure of where to start Inward is a really great starting point. I mean even if you’ve been doing breathwork for many years Inward is still an awesome resource, and you can access a link to their free month-long trial in the show notes as well as the episode page so every time I release an episode, it actually gets a full page on my website that also includes the transcript, and all the resources that were mentioned throughout this episode and in this particular episode there were quite a few. So, what I love about Inward is that they really did such an excellent job of creating these breathwork sessions that are just so beautiful and inspiring, you know, they’ve really added this creative flair and I really just appreciate and commend people when they want to bring a level of artistic expression to their craft, you know, thinking in new ways about what it means to put out an offering that really deeply inspires people and creates community and offers a blueprint for the way that we want to be showing up and inhabiting planet Earth.

And they also have a new course that’s all about transforming your life with breathwork and this course is going to be there, level one for their facilitator training. And so if you’re in the psychedelic space or not, and you want to add breathwork as a tool to your tool belt when supporting other people. I highly recommend checking out this online program created by the Inward team, and all also include those links in the show notes. And so before we dive in, just a quick note that I’m going to be speaking on Sunday, June 27 Can we believe that it’s already June, I can’t believe it. For his online festival called Create founded by Adam Rolla, that’s focusing on self-love and transformation. And some of the leading coaches on the topics of relationships and sexuality, business, and creative expression will be gathering for this online event, and I will be offering a talk exploring the intersection between creativity, flow states, and psychedelics. On Sunday, the 27th As I mentioned, so you can go to the Create festival.com That’s with the THG create festival, .com, and use my name Laura as a coupon code to get 10% off the ticket price, and honestly, the event is super affordable, to begin with.

And again I’ll include those links in the show notes. And a friend of mine who’s in my micro-dosing mastermind Arielle, sent me the song that I’ll be featuring at the end of this episode called Rise up, buttercup by Tiana. And I just like this fit for this episode because what the team at Inward is doing, is they’re taking action to consciously contribute to building a world they want to be living in. And they’re also building these amazing venues that are creating this new imprint for what it means to gather, socially. You know gorgeous places that have cold plunges and ice baths and 40 person saunas with sound systems, and breathwork classes, I mean, these are my kind of people. And in Rise Up Tiana says this line, you know, we are the ones we have been waiting for and we’ve heard this line before, and it’s a good reminder, you know, we need to take action towards creating and contributing to a better future for all of us.

Okay friends, so the other cool thing that I love about this episode is that I weave in some of the Inward Breathwork tracks that they feature on the website.

Amanda Laine: Holding on empty we’re halfway there. You’re doing so well everyone. When we come back into it, we’re going to come back in for out for breath, just like we started.

Laura Dawn: Just to drop in a little taste of what they’re offering feels like, you know, dropping in that resonant frequency here imprinting this episode with what they’re creating. So without any further ado, here is my conversation with Amanda and Harry from Inward Breathwork. Alright then, let’s just dive right on in.

Hey, welcome. Harry and Amanda. What a joy to have you guys on the show here with me today.

Harry Taylor: Thank you. It’s great to be here.

Amanda Laine: Thank you so much.

Laura Dawn: Well, you’re both the founders’, co-founders of Inward Breathwork I love what you guys are up to. Really supporting your mission and in such a big way right now. I’d love to start by asking each of you. What was your aha moment breakthrough moment where you’re like wow this is really powerful breathwork is powerful, and you knew that you wanted to dedicate a big chunk of your life to supporting other people in breathwork.

Amanda Laine: That’s a great question. I’ll start first and thanks my story relates to Harry’s, but it was about five years ago at Burning Man, it was my second burn, and I didn’t even know what breathwork was, I was just kind of my first burn was interesting, it was really coming into myself and I was just exploring more who I was from a spiritual side and meditation and then someone in our camp in second-year said I’m hosting a breathwork class today and, you know, at Burning Man You’re just like a YES, YES MAN like I’ll do anything, anyone, saying like, let’s try this. So Harry and I joined their class and he decided to just lie down on his mat, it’s going to be an hour, you’re going to be breathing, I’m going to guiding you the entire time as we are really great music, all you need to do is just surrender and let go, and I was like okay, I got no idea.

After about half an hour. I completely lost touch with myself being in this room, I have entered a whole new state of consciousness, and I went on this ride of my past experiences in my life, and I was holding hands and seeing people that had made an impact in my life. I remember doing this, I remember grabbing my hands and rubbing them, and my eyes were closed, everything was dark, and it was at this moment that I then felt these chains, it sounds insane, but I felt these chains off my wrist just break free, and then everything went red. At that moment, fully hallucinating colors, and then I came out the other side, it felt like ejected into this new, Amanda, this new person, and I felt this huge weight off my chest just released, and it was about an hour and a half total of breathwork, and it was a really fast of regulated beat. He was instructing us to yell to cry to scream, kind of just going through emotion.

In the end, we came back, and he had a circle, and I was shaking I was a full shell of my former self, and I couldn’t even get words and Harry was watching me and I was so raw, and I was like I don’t know what just happened. But my breath did that to me like this is the power of just this rhythmic fast style of breath, and it was at the moment we came back from Burning Man we were other business partners, and we’re just like, we need to do something and that’s like this is a whole new area that hasn’t been touched yet we had so deep in the heart Cold Therapy at that point that it was just a new avenue. And for me, I personally have not been the same since it has lifted this stress weight that I always carry with me, and life just felt a little bit hard. And that is gone. So it’s a really dramatic story I know but, it was a big shift for me.

Laura Dawn: Wow. And did you have to integrate that experience?

Amanda Laine: Yeah, that happened at the beginning of Burning Man so the whole rest of the week it was an amazing container to be held in because everywhere I went, anyone who listened to me and I was just talking about it and it was a lot of just talk therapy with people and everyone was asking me you know who, who you’re holding hands with like who are these people in your life, what did you let go of and it was a lot of play for days after of being able to talk through it with people that just really held space for me at that moment so that by the time I came back to Toronto I felt integrated into it and I felt just like embracing this new Amanda.

Laura Dawn: Wow, that’s pretty wild. Wow, go ahead, Harry.

Harry Taylor: And then for me. Yeah, thanks, as powerful as the experience was for me on a personal level, I can attest to Amanda’s experience that that was really the most profound moment for me was just watching Amanda and we had an integration circle and we’re like, about an hour after we’d actually done the breathwork and Amanda, so in love, I love her so much. We’ve been together for five years before that moment, and you know I had come to known Amanda as someone who was very composed, someone who’s very organized and responsible and accountable, and that’s why we are such a good balance. Because I was sort of on the other side of the spectrum. And so to see her just in such raw form, as you said like absolutely shaking and trembling and crying, the emotion it was so raw, I could see it in you that there was a shift in you from that moment on. So, as profound as the experience was for me on a personal level. What really stuck for me and what really allowed me to see the absolute transformational power of breathwork was through that integration process that one hour that we had after the breathwork and just seeing the rawness of yourself.

Laura Dawn: Wow, okay, well there is so much to dive into so from that point that was like five years ago, you did you start training and exploring different modalities was Wim Hof a big influence for you? At that time, and how did this lead you to start Inward?

Amanda Laine: Yes, so it led to a lot of science back research so rob your business partner is so good at diving into all the papers and talking to the people who are the people in the topic. So it wasn’t so much going and signing up for a breathwork training course it was more let’s read and learn about everything we possibly can. And interviews with people we can and practice. Yeah, and finessing it and tweaking it and working with, actually we work with a lot of psychedelic therapists as well to develop this whole protocol with breathwork in Toronto, and it was. Yeah, it was an evolution, I want to say of how it has come to be now

Harry Taylor: And just drawing in on inspirations from all different styles of Breathworks just from having done the research like this is certainly something that’s not new, there’s definitely a revival and renaissance of breathwork we’ve come to realize that it is the missing pillar of health. But this has been around for 1000s of years and the credit has to be given due to the Indians pranayama, and a Chinese CI has been known for a very long time so drawing in on that research, and just that physical practice. And then also, you know, tapping into the scientific community we’re starting to understand it from a Western philosophy as well. Wim Hof has been really big Stan Groff developed a breathwork practice that sort of was a replacement for psychedelic therapy when that became illegal. So just touching on all these different facets of breathwork throughout 1000s of years and drawing on inspiration from all sources.

Amanda Laine: Yeah.

Laura Dawn: So as you guys know I’m leading over 30 people in my three-month-long micro-dosing mastermind program, and the whole first month is really about the importance of establishing a daily practice. So yes, even though it is a micro-dosing program, micro-dosing isn’t really the thing that we’re talking about not in and of itself, you know, micro-dosing is just a powerful catalyst that can inspire us to show up at our altars and cultivate presence, and so can our other practices, you know like breathwork and meditation and movement practices, you know, and this is more the framework for which I teach micro-dosing like how can we weave more ceremony into the fabric of our everyday lives. And I consider the cultivation of daily practices to be akin to really embodying what it means to walk the path of mastery, and it takes dedication and commitment to show up for our daily practices. You know it takes a deep wellspring of motivation to, you know, show up, day in and day out to sit on the meditation cushion or to do the breathwork practices.

And so a big part of this first month is really inspiring people to tap into their why you know what is motivating them and can they use their why as that wellspring of intrinsic motivation to keep showing up. Even when we don’t feel like showing up, you know, and holding space for ourselves in these ways that help support our growth and transformation. So I’m so curious to ask both of you, you know what is your why, like if you were to give listeners an inspirational pep talk right now for why breathwork like why get excited about waking up in the morning and being like, I can’t wait to start my breathwork practice. What is your why, for breathwork?

Amanda Laine: That’s a good question.

Harry Taylor: Yeah, well, you want me to take that? We are just we’ve come to realize breath is the absolute foundation to everything else that arises in our life, it is that most basic unit of life for us, which allows for everything else to flourish, or physiologies, which controls our state of consciousness, how we feel about ourselves right now at this moment, compared to everything else do we feel good and grounded and centered. So when we made that realization that it was really the breath, that was at the root of all of our experiences that it made sense for us to really focus on the breath and really integrated it as part of our daily routines as part of our day to day, even when we’re not practicing. It is so important like you said to have a daily practice, but the breath is with us at all times, even when we’re not practicing even when we’re not conscious of it, it is always with us. So, the practice is for us to allow for us to tap into our breath at all times.

Amanda Laine: Now you’re 25,000 breaths a day and that’s 25,000 chances to just come back to come back from stress to come back from a state of anxiety to bring yourself there, you have 25,000 chances and it’s just by using your breath. So for me the big why was just like, why aren’t we already like this is the missing pillar of health. And for me personally, too I struggle with meditation. I’ve tried to have meditation practice every single day to sit down and be like okay, I know is this going to be good for me, I’m not going to feel better after but it’s hard because I didn’t feel I was looking for almost that immediate feeling of like, oh I’m okay I did it now I feel great. I like a workout you know you exercise that you feel great after for me meditation just wasn’t hitting that, you know, maybe in a week of practicing every single day I’d be like wow I’m handling stress better like I have to tune into that but for me breathwork after one session, you feel the tingles. You get a little bit of tetany, you’re building up co2 tolerance, you are physically changing your body’s biochemistry that I knew something was happening in me. I knew I was showing my prefrontal cortex, I knew I was entering a deep, deep state of meditation by using my breath as the anchor so for me, that’s a practice I can stick to and that’s why I’m so passionate about it. Because so many people struggle with meditation so many people have been in my shoes that I look at them, I’m like just try this like try it and you’re going to notice it. I promise.

Harry Taylor: Yeah, the breath is one of the few and by far the most powerful autonomic responses that we can take control of consciously. And so when we do, we can tap into what we thought were these autonomic functions. We can take control of the lives of our physiology, our circulatory system, our digestive system, our endocrine system the release of neurons and transmitters responsible for our state of consciousness. So everything, it’s really just the base, it’s the base with which everything else flourishes that give me all the why in the world.

Laura Dawn: That’s a great inspiration. And so I’d love to actually dive into some of the science behind breathwork, and do we need to distinguish styles. Before talking about science like does the science differs for pranayama, for example, then for a different style like Wim Hof style, or can we make generalizations about the science of breathwork?

Harry Taylor: We can definitely make generalizations, as to the one that I just kind of described, but it would be nice to distinguish two main styles of breathwork. And that speaks to the two main branches of the nervous system of our autonomic nervous system so there is the parasympathetic state of our nervous system. When that state is activated, we feel restful, we can digest we feel good about ourselves, our heart rate is slow, and we are relaxed and calm. And then there is the sympathetic style ever nervous system, which unfortunately is activated, it’s on. Too often, for most of us just in the way that we live our modern-day stressors, pollution, our diet, screens, social media. Our work’s just constantly active and while it does serve a purpose. It’s just on for too much and but we can activate the sympathetic style of our nervous system with a certain style of breath, it’s more upregulated through the mouth, heavy breath, and by activating the stress response consciously, it serves as a great tool for us to flex our physiology like we flex a muscle. So we’re taking control of our physiology. So there are two main branches parasympathetic and sympathetic.

Amanda Laine: I would say more of the proteomic styles are more parasympathetic inducing they’re meant to bring you into a place of calm, reduce stress like at the moment, and then there’s Wim Hof there’s polytropic what we developed it’s as well kind of falls in between those transformational a lot of that is then sympathetic inducing. So we can talk about it in that way if you want.

Laura Dawn: Oh, that’s interesting. I’m surprised to hear that pranayama would be parasympathetic when it feels like such an intense breath pattern, you know, that’s,

Amanda Laine: Yeah, I mean, I guess. I guess I’m thinking, I guess within craniotomy you can then categorize as well as Kalavati breath I would say probably is sympathetic inducing Breath of Fire you’re building out that inner fire getting your system ramped up, but then I would say like an oceans breath is really calming, so I think in. Yeah, in Sorry, that was a miss, misspoke there in pranayama, there’s definitely it’s touching on both sides as well.

Laura Dawn: Okay cool, and then so what would you call the name of your style?

Amanda Laine: Oh man,

Harry Taylor: This specially curated style, again just like credit has to be given out to all these styles, we’re just like drawing on inspiration from all the other sources Wim Hof was definitely big press was huge into the hot and cold. Yeah, but sort of creating something that is its own unique expression, we definitely do both parasympathetic and sympathetic breath words, there’s really a style of breathwork to induce any emotion we want, and we like to really just access the wide range of emotions and states that breathwork is capable of,

Amanda Laine: But I would say like a distinguishing factor-like Holotropic, for instance, is two to three hours of breathing right translation is hours, you are in that for a long time, and we’ve done by so much testing we sit down with stopwatches as a team and we’re going and we’re trying to get you to that state that heightened state of tingling of receptivity that you feel with, for instance, an hour-long session. We have curated and crafted it in 20 minutes, and we can get you there in 20 minutes. 10 To 20 so that when you feel like supercharged you’ve got it you feel that again you feel that sensations, you’re ramped up for your day it’s like that morning cup of coffee, but you didn’t need to go for hours of breathwork.

Harry Taylor: And this sort of speaks to the idea of discipline and practice that you were talking about earlier, we want to make these breathwork sessions very accessible and thorough accessibility, we’re seeing, we’re experimenting with, you know. Yeah. How quickly can we get people into that state of receptivity of bliss of oneness, and there’s also an artistic performance curation, that we approach with our breathwork sessions, just for the same reason. Like how can we, Yes breathwork is definitely this tool that allows for people to go deep to have these transformational experiences of growth and healing, but at the same time, how can we make it accessible so as, for it to be fun and engaging and dynamic and participatory.

Amanda Laine: So Harry’s old life as an artist has really come into play, because he’s so curated when the beat drops the breath drops when this happens like it’s very, it’s really, it evokes emotion through music

Harry Taylor: Music, through meditation, through visualization very particular guidance, what sort of words are we using the sort of meditations and visualizations here with the breathwork.

Amanda Laine: Because you’re so primed after a session of 20 minutes of breathing, you’re so ready to receive something that a breathwork session shouldn’t just end there. Like your heart is open your prefrontal cortex is quieted you’re ready to make a change, almost like the way psychedelics work in a way like you’re primed to make. Yeah, state shift. So at that moment lay in something about self-love land something about, you know, releasing shame, releasing like the negativity that we hold on to and that’s what differentiates us.

Laura Dawn: Oh, that’s beautiful. Yeah, I love your online classes and what you guys are doing and how you’re curating it, I’m all about that, you know, combining it in an artistic way like this is the path of the beauty way how do we embody that and how do we speak that language through what we’re putting out into the world and yeah, I feel like homing in on the craft and doing it at such a high level of mastery really put that frequency out that imprint out into society is really amazing. Gosh, okay, there are some multiple directions I do want to get into this more into the science, but can we just touch on this notion of like doing a 20-minute session versus like a three-hour session, and is it kind of like, can we, parallel that with psychedelics? Oh yeah, we might micro-dose more regularly, and do the deeper dives maybe once a month or once or twice a year. So Would you, could you compare it in that way?

Harry Taylor: Definitely, 100 percent. Yeah, you know you can do the deep dives and that’s sort of like for once a quarter or however you feel, but it’s more of like work, it’s the deep work, and it’s like a statement moment in your life when you go very deep, so we do have like hour-long sessions on our site and those are kind of like for once a month, once a quarter is what we recommend. And then we have like these 20 10-to-25-minute upregulated sessions where you’re definitely feeling it, you’re charging up your lifeforce your prana, you’re feeling the energy and the vitality. That’s more for like once a week, this is at least what we recommend it’s different for every person. And then we have these parasympathetic inducing if you want to relax or at the end of a stressful day or if you want to induce sleep, and that’s kind of like a daily practice. Absolutely.

Laura Dawn: Okay, so in terms of the sympathetic nervous system and stress. It was interesting to hear so many of the categories fall into sympathetic when we’re already so over-activated in the sympathetic nervous system. So, how do I make sense of that, in my mind in terms of breathwork is toning the sympathetic nervous system, you know, how does that help us actually reduce stress if we’re activating it?

Amanda Laine: Yeah, it’s so funny, it seems like a counterintuitive thing to do because you’re like oh I’m so stressed at work I had a really stressful day I’m going to lay down now and activate my stress response. And it is like going to a gym. So, okay, on a day to day, we are like Harry said we are living in a stress state but we’re doing so unconsciously. Many of us don’t even realize that our breath is short, that we’re holding our breath that we’re breathing our mouth too much activating the sympathetic response. You don’t even, most people don’t even realize that’s happening, but then they are developing illnesses, they’re getting really tired, they don’t know how to deal with stress. So, then by activating the stress response path consciously, that’s like the biggest thing is that you’re going to do so consciously, so you know when your body’s slipping in that state. So, you are in that state through heavy breathing, and then there hits this moment in time that you are depleting your body of co2, and you’re changing beside the chemistry levels in your body of those elements. And when you don’t have enough co2 In your bodies when you’re exhaling a lot through these active breath sessions. Your co2 level drops and when your co2 level drops that limits the ability of your blood to release oxygen to your organs.

So, blood now is not being released as much to your brain. And that is a state of the prefrontal cortex, which is that thinking analytical egoic mind that chatter, chatter, chatter mind is able to quiet. So through this really up-regulated breathing, you’re able to then enter a state of bliss of real quietness, and that is a state that we usually end on when we do these sessions because then people can lay there, and they are then whoa this is relaxation, this is full meditation, and your body then is able to come out after stronger and more resilient to stress and also flipped rate into the parasympathetic. So you’ve activated so heavily that when you come out, you’re able to be. Wow, this is calm. So that’s kind of an exaggerated way of explaining it.

Harry Taylor: But yeah, maybe just to back out of it and explain like how sympathetic activation will actually help for you to deal with your stress response we’re big advocates of this, even beyond breathwork We’re hot and cold experts as well, and that falls under the same scientific phenomenon it is known as hormesis, that’s an exposure to a short term stressor that in a large dose or an unconscious heavy dose would be harmful, even fatal, but in that controlled short state of stress, it is powerfully beneficial because it activates all these stress response pathways that we have encoded within our physiologies and encoded within our genes and that can only be activated when we have these stressors stimulated. You can think of the way that we evolved, we didn’t evolve in comfortable climates, we weren’t always sedentary as we were. There were times in which we had to run to catch our meal and so people think, physical exercise that’s the easiest thing to think of like you work out, you’re stressing your body, but that makes you stronger for the next time that you work out, intermittent fasting is the same thing, hot and cold exposure and the same thing, and this type of breathing ingesting this plant but the chemicals, all these things, stress our body slightly, but in turn activate the pathways that help deal with stress for the rest of the day for the rest of the week, well into the month.

Amanda Laine: And you can think about it that you’re almost increasing your stress baseline so a lot of us right now have really low baselines of stress because as Harry said of air conditioning of heat of always having your fridge full, so our level ability to handle stress is so bad so through sitting in an ice bath through Sonning through really exaggerated breathwork styles, you are slowly leveling up your ability to handle stress. So therefore when stress comes at you through traffic through brutal email through your social media. Your body isn’t going to get fired up and react because you know how to handle stress,

Harry Taylor: And the main way that that is manifested in our breathing patterns, is that our co2 Tolerance is too low. So we have seen where trying to expel carbon dioxide, we’re not able to that causes for us to over breath unconsciously and over-breathing through our mouth over-breathing in the chest type in the chest and through a diaphragm, sending signals really as it signals to our physiology to our nervous system that something is not okay. So when we breathe really heavily, we are up-leveling, our tolerance to carbon dioxide and that’s the most important thing that we do when we’re upgraded to breathing.

Laura Dawn: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I’m a big fan of Kelly McGonigal’s work and she just came out with a new book. I just got it on my Kindle I haven’t read it yet, but the title is Why Stress Is Good For You. And I love how it’s just actually putting the narrative on its head around stress, and I think we have to ed