Episode #58

Laura Dawn: Oh, my God, this is so fun and special that I get to interview one of my favorite humans on this planet, Tara Davina. , 

Tara Divina: it’s so special that I get to be interviewed by one of my favorite humans on the planet. Ms. Laura Dawn. 

Laura Dawn: Oh my goodness. Okay. So where shall we start at the intersection between psychedelics and miracles and astrology.

Okay. So just for those of you listening, I’ve known Tara gosh decade, like a, it’s been a long time. , it’s been a long time and we’re both Canadian. That was our first, you know, moment of like, oh, you’re from Ottawa. My mom lives in Ottawa. I grew up in Montreal and. One of the first things that I learned about you was that you are an incredible tic astrologer.

You are the first person to read my chart. And the thing that I find so fascinating about you is that you can remember people’s charts like forever. Like you looked at my chart once and then 10 years later, you’re like, oh yes. Well, this is what’s going on in your reality right now. 

Tara Divina: Well, it’s amazing. Because when I see someone’s chart, I feel like I’m like, I get excited.

Like I’m opening a present or something. It’s so much fun to see like what perceptions that I have had are validated and which ones are completely off base. Once I get to see someone’s chart, it really shows me. The objective situation and I am so excited by it that it just stays with me in, in my memory.

Laura Dawn: Hmm. That’s so sweet. I’m curious to, we should just dive right in, because there’s, there’s this question around astrology and destiny versus, you know, sitting with medicines and praying into what we want to call into our lives. And I’ve seen this a lot, you know, where it’s like people who are super into astrology are like, oh my God, Mercury’s going retrograde on Monday.

Like the, my whole world’s gonna fall apart. And I’m like, is that helpful? You know, is that, is that destined to be? And so I’m curious to, yeah. Launchpad off of this question around destiny versus free will and manifestation. And then I’d love to kind of get a sense of what’s going on astrologically during this time that we’re in, right.

Tara Divina: I love these questions so much. This is definitely one of my favorite topics because you know, the study of astrology really is the study of fate. You know, like where do we have any free will versus where do we have fate? And then a lot of spiritual practice especially when it comes to the medicine world is about healing and changing our trajectory.

And so for me, I’ve had to spend a lot of time reconciling those two things in my consciousness. You know, while I don’t believe in things like mercury is retrograde and everyone is gonna have a problem with their computer. I actually have a whole article on why the myth of mercury retrograde got so out of control.

I do believe in fate. I do believe that there are energies that there are events, people, places, and things that we are destined to experience. I’ve seen it. You know, one of the, the main ways that I know it exists is through retrodiction, which is when you look at a chart and you’re able to see what happened in the past.

Right. Obviously, if you can see what happened in the past there, that means that there has to be some form of in unalterable destiny. 

Laura Dawn: Did you say retro addiction? 

Tara Divina: Retrodiction. So there’s pre prediction. Oh, right. That’s like, okay. Here’s what’s coming. And then there’s retro addiction, which is here’s what’s happened.

And so oftentimes when a diviner in any system gets someone in front of them, they’ll know things about the past. And how could we know about the past, aside from being psychic? How could we know about the past, if, unless it was destined. To have happened, right? Mm-hmm so if I can look at the chart of someone who’s 90 years old and look at all the things that happened in their life lifetime, then some of those things must have been going to happen anyway.

And so then that brought me to this, this confronting question, which is that I obviously also believe that we create our own reality and I didn’t know what to do with this system that really resonated for me in terms of being able to predict things and this other very powerful system that empowered me to believe that I can change my reality and pray and have miracles manifest.

And after contemplating for a really long time, you know, what I’ve come to is that yes. You know, there are certain things that are bound to happen and there’s areas of our lives where it’s easier to apply free will, you know, like some of us, some people, you know, how they might just snap their fingers and pray for some financial benefit or some money and money will come.

They’re just the kind of person who has an ease full time manifesting money mm-hmm . And then you might look at someone else who’s trying to manifest money. And it’s like the hardest thing in the world for that person. Right. And I think that’s because some of us have different areas of our lives, where the energies are more open and available and easy.

And so if we pray in those areas, if we look to manifest in those areas, it just comes forward so much more quickly and with so much more ease. And then there’s those other areas which are really difficult. And, you know, those are the prayers that we make that maybe take longer, you know, that maybe show up in a different way than we expected.

That aren’t necessarily as at our fingertips, as the other things. And I think that everything is still possible and that all miracles are still available. No matter what our destiny is. It’s just a question of. 

Laura Dawn: And ease. It sounds like, cause I remember one of the first things that we were talking about was like, in my chart, you were like big stages destined for success.

And I was like, but what if I don’t try? Like what if I don’t, you know, put an effort towards trying to be successful, quote, unquote, successful, whatever I define as success, which is also another interesting inquiry around like, how are we defining each of these things? But I remember you saying something like, there’s not much that you could do that is going to prevent you from being successful in your life.

And you know, money has always actually come really easy to me and I launch programs and they do really well. And you know, I am starting to speak on bigger stages, but I did remember at that time where I was just like building the retreat center and things were so much more difficult and it was a really difficult phase and I’m like, I just wanna give up.

So if I give up completely, will I still be successful? 

Tara Divina: yes. Because success will come find you. If it needs to, if that energy is meant to be expressed in your life, it just will. It’s like you’ll accidentally do something. You know, you know, those stories where you hear about someone falling into a successful business, like they just had some random hobby they were doing that meant, you know, that was never meant to make the money.

And then somebody saw something they were selling and it turned into a multimillion dollar business. Those stories are out there. It’s like, well, why did that happen? That person wasn’t even trying. They literally stumbled into it. Fate. Mm-hmm they didn’t even have a prayer for it that they were aware of.

Laura Dawn: Right. Right. It also makes me think of nature versus nurture. Like we are predisposed towards certain ways of being, and then there’s the environment that we grow up in. So there’s the circumstance of the moment. But then of course, the, the sort of innate astrology that is surrounding us. And I also kind of think of it in terms of patterns where it’s like, okay, during these years, you know, it’s going to be like off and on relationships.

And then, you know, moving into this time where there’s more of a chance of like finding your person and rooting in. And, and so do you more work with people in terms of patterns like that? Just to be aware of? 

Tara Divina: Absolutely. Like if somebody comes in saying, I really want a relationship, it’s not really productive to say or true to say you can’t have one.

Right. It’s not true. It’s just easier to say, oh, I’m noticing you have a pattern right now where you’re likely to be really focused on work. Where I see a pattern right now, where you’re likely to be really picky about who you choose, and it’s gonna be hard for you to settle on one person. And that’s really what it is.

It’s, it’s a tendency. It’s a way of being that kind of captures us for a period of time. And in fact, in Sanskrit, the planets are actually called Guha, which means to seize, to grab to grip. And I find that so interesting because we all think of them as these forces that are influencing us in some way, but in the Vidic philosophy, it’s like they’re literally snatching us and moving us into a state of being a state of consciousness that then influences everything that we do.

So we can be in a cycle of a particular planet. And it’s like, we’re wearing goggles that are colored by that planet’s lens and everything. We look everything we see is looks like that planet’s energy or is seen through the energy of that planet. So an example. Would be, if we’re gripped by the planet, Jupiter, you know, we might be seeing everything in an idealistic way.

We might be just gleaning the wisdom from everything and feeling really positive, feeling really expansive, very optimistic, very generous, AKA the positive qualities of Jupiter. Assuming we have a good Jupiter, you know, and in relationships that’s helpful energy. Now we could also be in a period of Saturn, which tends to be more isolated, a little more solitude, Inness, a little more disciplined, a little more picky about anything to do with intimacy.

And so that’s gonna be a period that we’ll have a different impact on our ability to relate. And so we’ll be grabbed by the energy of that. Hmm. 

Laura Dawn: Interesting. And so for each of the planets, is there ways that they influence all the areas of our lives or are there planets that are more like relationship planets and then other ones that are more like abundance or did they all have an effect on the way that we relate to abundance or relationships or our career path or whatever it is?

Tara Divina: Yeah, it’s such a good question. So the planets do have certain inherent meanings and associations, so there’s no denying that Venus has more to do with love and relationships than say Saturn. You know, though, I mean, Saturn certainly has its impact. Venus tends to represent love in, in its way. On the other hand, it depends what house of the chart that planet is associated with.

And that house, the houses are just basically a way of dividing up different topics of life. And so you have a topic. Maybe like love is one house, right? And so if Saturn owns your house of love, then Saturn is gonna have a very big influence in terms of your love 

Laura Dawn: life. Okay. Is this how Western astrology is set up?

Well, like how different is Vata astrology versus Western 

Tara Divina: astrology? That’s actually a, a piece that’s different. So on the surface, there’s a lot of similarities. You have the same 12 houses, the same nine planets. Well, Western astrology uses some additional planets as well. You know, similar signs Vadix astrology has a whole set of signs that Western doesn’t use as well.

So there’s some structural similarities in terms of the meanings of different things. But after that, it’s very divergent the way. We read the chart and interpret it. The things we look at, the way that we analyze different areas of life is quite different. 

Laura Dawn: Hmm. And what drew you to VAD astrology specifically?

Tara Divina: I was like anti astrology and pro science. I worshiped at the alter of science. It was my religion. I did not believe in anything to do with anything mystical or esoteric. And I had a spiritual awakening many years ago. And through that spiritual awakening, I, I wound up trying things that I had previously been closed to including receiving an astrology reading.

And it just so happened that the person who gave me that reading was a VAD astrologer. I didn’t know that I liked one or the other. I didn’t know anything about it. Other than pop culture, you know, reading my horoscope and a newspaper type of stuff. . But when this man opened his mouth to give me this reading, it blew my mind.

He was telling me things about myself that I had never told anybody things that I had never even said out loud. And it really, really captured my attention, but what’s even more interesting than that is it captured my passion in a way that nothing else in my life ever had. I was possessed. I had to study it and it’s not actually that easy to learn.

It’s hard to find someone to teach it. It’s hard to learn because it’s rather obtuse and mathematical with tons of details and memorization. And yet I couldn’t stop myself. And it was that feeling that was so deeply satisfying to me to have finally for the first time in my life, discovered something to be captured by.

Hmm. Who did you study with? I studied with Steven Berger. Hmm. Do you feel 

Laura Dawn: like there are a lot of other people who are very rooted on the medicine path and really looking at the intersection between astrology and medicine work? I think 

Tara Divina: there are a lot of medicine focused people who are also interested in esoterica like astrology and there are definitely some people who I’ve seen asking similar questions to the ones that I ask, but it’s true that I haven’t seen that much of the conversation that we’re having 

Laura Dawn: right now.

Interesting. Yeah. And then I’m curious about, like, do you think that it’s helpful actually to look at beta astrology and then go and sit in ceremony and pray into what you want in your life and to also have this like level of meta awareness around certain patterns? Yeah. I’m kind of curious your thoughts about that.

Oh, 

Tara Divina: I think it is so helpful. And in fact, so many of the people that I read for are. Sitting with medicine. Naturally, I attract people into my field who are fascinated with that as I am. And what’s so helpful about this system is it can presence for us blind spots, areas that we really care about that maybe we haven’t acknowledged how much we care about them, and it can really vocalize our prayer on those things.

So that we’re deeply praying for what we truly truly want versus the thing that maybe we think we want, that isn’t the thing. And so oftentimes in these sessions, people will get so much clarity or they’ll realize that the thing that they thought they needed to pray so hard for is inevitable and not something that they need to really worry about.

You know, for example, you being successful, not something you need to worry about so much, it’s great for you to pray about it. And also, like I said, will continue to be inevitable in your life. Hmm. 

Laura Dawn: Yeah, it’s interesting. So I, I just sat this past weekend and I felt like I was receiving such a, a deeper level of teachings around the medicine, really teaching me what it means to.

I’m so curious to hear 

Tara Divina: more, 

Laura Dawn: really landing in a different way and new songs coming through that were really actually bringing the teachings through which as we know, it’s been a journey around my music and my voice. And actually I was listening to let the light in one of your songs and singing alongside you.

And you know, when I, when I do solos, I like to listen to music and also sing and play music and be in, in and out of flows like that. But you were actually present for me this, this Saturday, as I was really feeling this prayer in my body around manifesting land. And home. And when we were preparing for our, our conversation, I was like, oh, I wanna ask Tara what’s what’s up in my chart around home right now.

like, are things, you know, supposed to align for me because yeah, just since 2018 with the volcanic eruption, it’s been five years, four years of just like so much upheaval. And it actually feels so tender to pray for something that I really just deeply desire in my life. You know, there’s a, a real vulnerability in that.

And so I wanna ask you about my chart in a minute, but I actually want to ask you about what you’ve learned about prayer through the medicine and through ceremony. 

Tara Divina: Okay. Because I’m very excited to share with you about your chart, but I’ll, I’ll hold off for just a little bit. . What I have learned about the medicine and prayer through ceremony, I have learned that we are co-creators.

And that I’ve literally had the experience of seeing my mind and my heart co-creating with spirit, the great unknown, my reality. And it was such an important revelation for me to have, because I didn’t get it. I thought maybe I’m praying to another power to create for me. Right. Or am I responsible for creating everything myself?

Which one is it? And the answer was neither, you know, like it’s, it’s a dance. That prayer is a dance. And in fact, another thing I I’ve noticed is that my prayers pray me. I don’t have a lot of control over what prayers are in my heart. For example, I did not have a prayer to be a VAD astrologer. I did not.

I had a prayer to find a purpose, though. It was really important to me to find my purpose. And at that time that was the first layer of my purpose. That revealed itself to me. And that was such a co-creation you know, the co-creation is that. I knew I wanted to have a purpose. And again, that prayer kind of prayed me too.

Where did that even come from? Why did I care? I had a very successful career before I needed a purpose, but that prayer came to me and then I prayed for it. And here it came in a way that I couldn’t have predicted it was a co-creation with spirit or my higher self or the medicine or whomever. We did it together and I really feel like that’s how it goes is that if we’re meant to have a prayer, it will come to us.

And if a prayer has come to us, it’s meant for us, it’s there for a reason. It’s there to teach us something, to bring us something, to have us something. 

Laura Dawn: Hmm. Right. Yeah. And what was coming through in my sit on Saturday night was around prayers being such a, a strong frequency. And so we can like tap into that frequency and be in resonance with it.

And what was coming through is that prayers are like these. These templates, they’re like scaffolding in the field that then turn into 3d blueprints that manifest in reality. And I am such a big believer in really leveraging the power of the mind to go into these realms, into the spirit realm, and literally with the mind shape and mold a vision for what we wanna create and then, you know, watch it manifest, but also hold it lightly.

It’s like praying into the field, but then letting it go, just like letting that, that resonance get carried by the wind and if it’s meant to happen, it will happen. And yeah. Yeah, just feeling that, that so deeply in my body and understanding. The frequency of feeling states and the frequency, you know, and like Joe Des Benza talks about this.

I mean, I’ve been talking about this for years and weaving that understanding with like the thinking, feeling loop with medicine work for so many years, but there was a deeper level of really understanding it on such a, a cellular level in my body. Like really emitting the frequency of how I wanna feel and just feeling so grateful for my life.

And then going from there, creating from that space of just like emitting gratitude, every single. Sell am I being just like radiating gratitude for my life and for the frequency of creativity and the frequency of creation and the frequency of inspiration and learning how to like tap into that and align with that and create from that space.

Tara Divina: Well, I love so many things about what you just shared. First of all, the, the metaphor of the scaffolding really lands for me as so beautiful and such a beautiful way to imagine prayers. Like we’re putting out this kind of structure that can get filled in all the details and the pieces that we want it to be built on top of this scaffolding that we’ve provided.

And secondly, I love so much what you were saying in terms of the beaming of the gratitude, filling every cell. And it’s actually, it’s just so perfect for you specifically, you know, you are someone who is very much ruled by the planet. Jupiter. since we’re gonna be talking about your chart, I figure we should bring up Jupiter.

And Jupiter is a planet that if we have a strong influence of Jupiter, we’re likely to have access to more gratitude than the average person. It’s just a planet that allows for more gratitude to appear and to exist. And so you’re someone who’s wired for that. And so no surprise that this prayer is coming up for you, especially after you’re reaching the last six months of this period of upheaval.

You know, you’re closing, closing up this period and transitioning into the next thing, which is all about home. It’s all about that. It’s the next arc. So you, you were in kind of a seven and a half year phase of just pure transformation and for you, because of some other details in your chart, it wound up being more on the upheaval side than the walk in the park side mm-hmm of transformation.

And now you’re exiting that and you’re entering into another seven and a half year chapter, which is a period of creating home and community. Hmm. And it’s blessed also by the planet, Jupiter, because Jupiter also owns your house of home and community. And it happens to be there by transit in the sky right now.

So it’s active all the way through April. It’s extra juicy for you, so, oh, wow. I am not feeling surprised that everything is lining up in the most magical way for you right now in this area of your life. 

Laura Dawn: So when we’re talking about the 12 houses, like home is, is one of the, the 12 houses. 

Tara Divina: Yeah. There’s a house that represents well, so each house represents multiple themes.

Mm-hmm can 

Laura Dawn: we, can we run through them? What, what are the 12 here? 

Tara Divina: Yeah. Okay. We’ve got the first house, which. Kind of the most important house. It, it is the overarching theme of who we are as people, our self, our personality, our nature, our character, our, our overall wellbeing. And then we move to the second house.

And the second house is about what we accumulate our wealth. Our food are adornments. It’s also about the face and the voice and the things that come out of our mouth and go into our mouth. These are not comprehensive definitions by the way, that would take hours. So this is skimming the third house. Now we start to get into themes of communication and what we’re doing with our hands and the study of classical arts.

We also start to get into themes of neighbors and the people who live around us. It also represents specific family members. Then we move into the fourth house, which is all about home house. Our community, our mother, the foundation of both us and the foundation, meaning where we live. So it’s a really, really important house.

1, 4, 7, and 10 are special houses that represent some of the biggest themes in our life. Then we go to the fifth house, which represents the children or the creative projects we might fill our home with. Also fifth house represents the advice and the counsel that we give and our heart, the sixth house is all about details, details, details, all those kind of legal issues and functional issues and health issues.

Our habits, our routines, our conflicts, the seventh house. Everybody’s favorite. Is about relationships, which PS turns out the only thing anyone ever cares about is that don’t care what they’re telling me after having done like a thousand readings, I can promise you that everybody only cares about relationships at the end of the day.

Oh that’s. So if you come in and they say that they only have a quick relationship question at the end, it is a hundred percent what they care about. Oh my gosh. That’s so funny. Seventh house. It also represents business partnerships among other things. The eighth house everybody’s least favorite house, but also arguably one of the very most important life and death, you know, the house of the biggest transformation that exists and the house of chronic illness but also the house of esoterica and spiritual knowledge.

So it’s a very rich house full of themes that are often tough to confront, but matter so much to us. Ninth house, the house of good fortune of luck of father, of travel of higher wisdom, definitely a favorite among most people. Also the house of purpose, the 10th house, which is the house of career, the house of authority, the house of large organizations, the house of how we work basically.

Then there’s the 11th house, the house of gain, where we gain through investments, we might gain through things we don’t have to work for. It also includes the gain of spiritual powers. Our, our, the gains that we receive through our network of people and friends groups, organizations, societies, and then there’s finally the 12th house, which is about loss, except it’s things like loss of ego, which leads to enlightenment loss of consciousness, which.

Leads to sleep loss of money, which could lead to investing in a house. Right. So it’s sometimes negative, but sometimes very positive at the same time. Hmm. And that is my quick rundown of the houses. Again, it’s not comprehensive. 

Laura Dawn: Hmm. That’s funny that you said that about relationships because I feel like that’s rarely.

Well, I guess I do sometimes ask you about about compatibility charts. Although I do feel like in general, the theme, the bigger themes in my life have been more around career and home. And I think part of my chart, what you mentioned to me in our first reading is that I just have really good relationship karma, which has been true in my life.

So it’s not actually something that I’ve ever really sort of worried about or thought like, oh, when is my person gonna show up? It’s been more like long-term majority. I won’t say like, long-term happy relationships, but like, you know, the majority of all my relationships have been long-term solid, happy relationships.

So it’s interesting that you said that about relation. Cause I was like, huh? I don’t know if that that’s like my primary like interest in the Vata astrology part, but it does bring me comfort anytime I need to think about it. I’m like, oh, just think about your chart. It’s fine. It’s all fine. 

Tara Divina: well, you have a very independent chart, which is also worth noting.

So when you take an independent chart and then you add in more ease, useful relationship karma than the average bear, then you’ll get someone who’s less hyper-focused on it. But the reality is that most of us wind up coming to the same conclusion, which is that no matter what else we’re going for, whatever else we’re striving towards, it feels better to share it.

Mm-hmm and I think at the end of the day, that’s why people seem to care about it so much. 

Laura Dawn: Mm. Right. That makes sense. And so I didn’t know that that was part of my chart was like an independent like I didn’t, but that makes sense. 

Tara Divina: does make sense. Yeah. 

Laura Dawn: I’m curious. So for people listening, well, first of all, I just highly recommend people listening to schedule a session with you because that would just make it easier to make this like, all make sense for everyone individually.

But I’m kind of curious in terms of just like, can you make generalizations for everyone or is it very specific? Like if something’s up right now that you like, how come for me, for example, there’s something around the, the fourth house around home and community, is it because MyChart is ruled by Jupiter and there’s other things going on and, and then how do we make generalizations for like everyone, right.

Tara Divina: So understanding what themes are gonna be activated for you and what areas of your chart are gonna be extra blessed that requires actually looking at your birth chart, just to see like where what’s really specifically going to happen for you. So those are comments that I can only make for you. Maybe some other people who have certain similar placements, but generally speaking, there are some things that we can look at.

So there’s certain planets that are called the slow movers and they take anywhere from one year to three years to travel through a sign mm-hmm . And when they move people, move things, move stuff happens, people get together, they break up, you know, like there’s a lot of big energies shifting. And so it’s always worth looking at those moments in time.

Likewise, when those particular planets go retrograde, sometimes it can bring up old themes. So. Here’s an example. Saturn is currently retrograde along with Jupiter, but let’s start with Saturn because Saturn has gone retrograde for the very last time before moving into the next sign, which it will do in the end of January.

I believe so. That’s fairly soon. That’s in, you know, six months. And it’s the end of this big chapter where Saturn has been traveling through this sign for two and a half years. And so when it moves a lot of the problems that have been writing us for the last two and a half years will reach some point of resolution either.

It will become a permanent fixture in our lives, or it will resolve and move on and will become focused on new issues, new problems, new challenges. However, when Saturn goes retrograde again, It goes retrograde maybe three times every time it’s in a sign and it’ll do so for five months. And so during those periods, what’ll happen is Saturn’s job is to make change in our life, to clear out the things that are not on alignment for us to trim the fat, so to speak of our lives.

And when Saturn tries to do that or does it, and then it goes retrograde. And we try to build it back up again, right? Like we’re, we’re like, oh, I didn’t wanna lose that. I actually wanna go back to the way things were, let me try doing that. And it’s not an alignment for us. This retrograde phase will knock down the house of cards that we just tried to build back up.

If it is indeed our destiny or our highest alignment or our prayer to be moving on from that thing and moving forward in our lives and the prayer is always forward. So if we’re trying to make things as they were, we’re rarely going to have much look doing that. 

Laura Dawn: What do you recommend people pay attention to right now considering what’s happening astrologically?

Yeah. 

Tara Divina: So the fact that Jupiter is also rat grade means that a lot of themes are gonna be coming back up for reexamination. And so the key is to ask yourself for all of us to ask ourselves, what’s the way forward, what is my prayer for forward? How can I cease my attempts to rebuild the past, which can never be rebuilt, right?

And focus on what’s to come. And the more we pray into what we are creating and the future, which is always different than the past, there’s no possible way it can ever be the same. The more we’ll be aligned with reality. Hmm. And when we’re talking about Saturn, who’s kind of the, the major player in this moment aligning with reality is the way that we can have the most easeful enjoyable.

Lives full of gratitude and celebration. Hmm. 

Laura Dawn: It’s interesting. I’m thinking about a journey I had maybe a month ago, six weeks ago. It was after I went to Columbia and dropped in with the Kos and the mamos. I went home quote, unquote home. I went back to Austin where I had habited an apartment for eight months and I sat there to really pray into what I want for my life.

And there was a moment where. I was noticing this very strong sort of like magnetic pull to go back into this grief cycle of grieving the last chapter, which, you know, thank you so much for being by my side and being such an amazing friend through everything that happened. Hawaii, the divorce, you know, the volcanic eruption, it’s just been so much upheaval.

And there’s been, I actually took quite a, a long break from drinking medicine because when I would sit with the medicine, I just felt like it was so painful. So much of my medicine work had been tied up with that land and with my marriage and my partnership and, and it was just really, really painful to, to sit and to actually sit in that level of discomfort.

without going into like all the details. And then in Austin, you know, six months ago or six weeks ago, rather, I had this feeling of, of noticing almost like this neural pathway of like going back into that, oh, I missed the land. And like, I, why, why did this happen? You know, I just really miss that land so much.

It was such a big part of who I am and my identity and just like my, my way that I lived every day on hot spring and all of it, fruit trees, gardens, and my, my lifestyle. And then in this moment, I just, I had like something just very profound click within me. And it actually required a lot of willpower to say, no, like, don’t go into that back grief cycle again.

That is like, it felt like this like magnetic pull towards it and. Use your willpower pray into what you want. And I like sat up straight and I was just like really praying into what I want, like next chapter. And then everything has rapidly come into alignment since that prayer. I mean, it’s been actually remarkable, like wrapping up my whole apartment, pretty like easefully very quickly within three weeks and making the move to Costa Rica.

But it was an understanding on like a very like neural level of, of just how much patterns are rooted and how difficult it is to actually say, okay, I’m not gonna go back into the pattern and I’m going to move forward with my life and pray into what I want, which is very humbling to share, because this has been something that I’ve been teaching forever.

but when you, you know, are really put to the test, you, you can understand it on a much deeper level. 

Tara Divina: it’s always about grief, you know, and the reality is that when we are wanting things to be the way that they were it’s actually just that we’re experiencing grief about having lost something that we loved.

And even though we know on some level that we can create something we love, maybe even more, there’s still the grief. And I think that’s it. We have to go through our process with it. And even that, if that’s a moment of saying, I wish I still had that thing, I feel so sad. It’s still valid as long as we do our grieving and then move on to the next thing.

Laura Dawn: Right. And then even that, I mean, I’ve learned a lot about that too, when to continue to grieve and like milk the grief and be like, okay, I’m grieving. And when to be like, actually I think I’ve shed enough tears around this. It’s time to move on and even that is not always, it can be tricky. it can be 

Tara Divina: tricky and grief lasts a lifetime in my experience and will come back.

Anytime something new appears to grieve in my experience, it will pick up all the other grief mm-hmm that still needs to be processed about whatever else happened in the past. I like to think of it like a grief avalanche, that accumulates more and more throughout our life that we just keep processing.

And I love it because I think it is the gateway to creative expression and to our next level ability to express our talents and so many incredible transformative things. I don’t view grief as something to be avoided at all. And gosh, it’s really hard when it comes up. 

Laura Dawn: Yeah. Say more about this grief as a catalyst for creativity.

And you know, when I think about grief, I think we grieve because we love, you know, we grieve, it’s like the, the it’s the light and the dark. Like we have to learn how to hold all of it. But I’m curious to hear more about your thoughts, about grief as a catalyst for, 

Tara Divina: well, when we’re grieving something is dying, right?

And the thing that’s dying is the part of our identity that associated with whatever it is that is no longer there. You know, if we lose a person, there’s a whole part of our story that no longer exists. If we lose a place, it’s the same thing. And if we let that part of ourself perish, if we let it move on, it creates space.

It creates space for the next thing, for a new story. And in that new story, anything is possible. But until we let the old story go, which is really the function of grief to allow our evolution. there’s no space. And so when we create that space, amazing things can happen. I’ve had an experience, you know, I’m a medicine musician, in addition to some of the other things I’m up to, and I write in share healing music for medicine ceremonies.

And before I did that, I loved to sing, but my voice just couldn’t quite open up, you know, and no matter what I did to try to open it up, it wouldn’t work until I started working with the medicine. And then one day I opened my mouth and an entirely new instrument came out, but I had been grieving so hard for the last year or two in that work that I was doing.

It was just me crying and processing fear and feeling all these really difficult feelings. And then much to my surprise, a whole new instrument came out and I started writing songs that were completely different from anything else I had ever done. And it was mind blowing to me. And I had it happen again later when my voice opened again, after a period of grief and I started to realize this is the key, you know, like we can try to technically improve ourselves and practice and toil at things, and we will improve.

And yet the quantum leaps are available in the grieving. 

Laura Dawn: Hmm. And I love your music so much. I’m so grateful for all your medicine ways and have been so blessed to be on the receiving end of so many of those resonant frequencies landing in my heart, I was actually, I was just learning Ember. And you have a new songbook out that people can learn your songs, which is also amazing and such a gift.

And all, I’m definitely gonna include that link in the show notes as well. Oh, 

Tara Divina: awesome. I love it. When the songs travel, like I never feel more excited than when someone says, Hey, I learned your song and played it in a circle in Australia. And I get to think of. How far the song got to journey in the hearts that it gets to 

Laura Dawn: touch.

And that gives me hope to hearing your experience with your own voice. So what house is, is the voice in? Did, was that the second? Yeah. Good memory second. Oh my gosh. So, oh man, this is probably like the most vulnerable thing I could possibly share publicly. It’s like, I haven’t been singing for almost two.

Years since new year’s and it was just yeah, an experience that really shut down was almost like a traumatic experience that really shut down my voice and my creative channel in that way. And I just started singing again about a month ago after, after going through just like this really deep grief cycle and feeling the way that my shutdown voice well, it’s interesting because as soon as my voice shut down musically, I started the podcast it was almost like my voice was like, I need an outlet, give me something.

And now I’m singing again. And I’m noticing just like the alignment in my prayer in a different way right now. And it just feels like, yeah, it’s just time, it’s time. And, and that shutdown of the channel and the voice was also like very tied up to a story and a narrative, you know, that is also being transmuted that you happen to know quite, 

Tara Divina: quite well.

That what that narrative is, . Okay. Well, guess what planet entered your second house about a couple years ago and is on its way out. 

Laura Dawn: which one? Saturn. Okay. So what does that mean? 

Tara Divina: It means, you know, Saturn brings change. It brings a letting go. It brings inhibition. It brings grief, right? And so where is Saturn for you?

And by the way, everybody is impacted by Saturn’s movement through their charts. Nobody has spared the eye, the gaze of Saturn, you know? And so for you a couple years back, Saturn entered your second house of voice and self-expression, and when Saturn is in the second house of voice and self-expression, it begins by making it hard for us to express ourself.

And then it ends hopefully by us freeing ourself and being able to express ourself in a new way. Mm. So if we accept the grief and we feel the feelings. You get an, a plus for 

Laura Dawn: five stars. 

Tara Divina: Oh 

Laura Dawn: my God. Like, I feel like I have a PhD in grief. 

Tara Divina: Yeah. But see, that is what opens up that next level of creativity.

And first came the podcast and next comes your next batch of songs and the. Expression 

Laura Dawn: of your singing voice. Mm, Mary ISIS, who, who I featured as a musician on this podcast, numerous times who Tara and I both know and adore and love, I left her a message the next morning saying, Ugh, new music is coming through me.

And Saturday night, it was all about the, the frequency of prayer. This song coming through and then really was, was actually working with that song as a, a catalyst for praying for land and for home, it was like the medicine was teaching me about prayer and actually giving me this deeper level of instruction through this totally new song that came through.

And it’s been a couple years since felt that. So it all makes sense. It’s all coming together now, and this is why people should get readings with you, because it’s just fascinating to see like the parallels that are unfolding right now. 

Tara Divina: And it’s helpful to give context to our journey. You know, even though for the most part, nobody’s shocked by the news in their chart.

It’s always something that like we’ve known on a deep level, or maybe it’s illuminating something we weren’t willing to look at, but it’s never a real shocker, you know? And it is really helpful though, to have some context for it. You know, like when my when I experienced a really big loss in, you know, a few years back, I knew it was coming and some might say like, oh gosh, I don’t wanna know that anything bad is gonna happen, but it was so helpful because when the thing happened, I thought to Ms.

Love, okay, there’s that thing, you know, like, and it also had allowed me to prepare for the thing in a different way and to get ready for it and to less of the impact a little bit. So. I think just understanding the why of what’s coming up in our lives, whether that’s good or bad, you know, just, just give a little context of the energy that’s flowing can really bring a lot of inner peace, you know, just to know like, oh, that’s why my voice has been shut down for the last years and why it doesn’t mean your voice will stay shut down.

You know why it means that your voice will open back up or is opening back up in this very 

moment. 

Laura Dawn: Mm-hmm so Saturn you’re saying is moving right now that, and that pattern or that cycle is gonna end at the end of this year. That’s right. So 

Tara Divina: right now Saturn is backwards. It’s kind of stirring up some of the old things and if you’ve done your healing work this can be a great time of renewal.

And moving on to the next thing, if you’ve been avoiding your healing work, this will be a reckoning, you know? And so for you, it sounds like. you are moving on to the next thing and feeling new threads of inspiration. Come through. Like you’ve done your work. You’re moving forward. You’re getting ready for the next 

Laura Dawn: chapter.

Hmm. It really feels like I’m opening up a new chapter that feels like on such a next level in my life. I don’t know why I thought I could make Austin work. I think that’s, I just, anyways, I have to like really give myself some like grace and self-compassion and understanding around that. But I am so grateful to be back in the mountains and back in nature.

And it really has felt like so much has aligned and there’s been this like real clear open channel and everything clicking into place. Are you noticing that there’s like an acceleration happening right now? Things feel very 

Tara Divina: fast. They feel very fast. I don’t know what to say about that astrologically, but I definitely have that experience.

I don’t know if it’s because of our perception, you know, like, it’d be interesting to talk to people who are a lot younger than us and ask them if things are feeling fast or 

Laura Dawn: not. Hmm. Yeah. It’s interesting. I have felt this rapid quickening and this rapid alignment and things clicking into place on a lot of different levels and just trusting that, you know, and, and just listening and tuning in.

And what you said before actually really struck me because I was thinking about like, when we choose to up level our lives, it really requires a new way of thinking a new level of belief system and a new way of operating that fundamentally requires us to let go. And really, we have to grieve like who we were to step into who we’re becoming.

And I don’t think we really like frame it that way. Very often of like, oh, there is inherently a letting go. If you are going to up level your life, 

Tara Divina: You’re speaking my language and my lyrics.

it’s cute because two of my newer songs, one of them is called, just let go. And then one of them is called grief and I love how these themes just work their way into any good conversation. I think those are the best songs are the ones that we all relate to on such a deep level that feels so 

Laura Dawn: present.

Mm-hmm okay. So forget everything I previously said about the relationship piece. So there is

there happens to be someone special emerging in my life. So I am kind of curious, 

Tara Divina: I mean, when things are going well, relationship wise, who needs their chart really, that said you are entering a period where it is very lined up for yummy relationship time, you know? And when I say entering a period, I mean, like in the next few weeks, 

Laura Dawn: That’s interesting.

It’s 

Tara Divina: aligned. Mm-hmm , you know, it’s aligned. Plus like I said, you’re exiting a period of great turmoil and relationship stability oftentimes requires that we are a little more stable mm-hmm so you’re just coming into that place of grounding and being able to relax. 

Laura Dawn: Yeah, I’m really feeling that I’m really feeling that.

And also really choosing to work with the medicine in a way that’s, that’s like anchoring a lot of these themes, which is a way that I actually feel is so beneficial, which is why I like to, you know, just ping you about specific questions sometimes. I mean, I love talking to you about all the things, and I do think it’s really helpful to sort of gain that meta awareness and then bring it into the ceremony and pray into it, feel into it, see what’s emerging and what’s aligning.

Okay. So Saturn was a big thing. There was something else. Jupiter was a big, a big moving piece. So for people who are going through big transition, I mean, we’re coming out of like, COVID time you were like, you were, you mentioned in the last two and a half years, I was like, Hmm. I wonder like what big catastrophic thing happened in the last two and a half years, you know, 

Tara Divina: oh yeah.

Well, Saturn and Jupiter came together and whenever they do, which is about every 20 years, we get a cataclysmic event that ushers us into a new era. And so COVID, the pandemic was the event that has ushered us into a new era where things are not quite the same as they were. There’s so much that has shifted on a, like a seismic shift on a fundamental level where we will never go back to exactly the way things were mm-hmm before pandemic became part of our lives.

And a lot of that is. Challenging. And a lot of it is incredible. You know, the advent of people working from home and figuring out that they don’t need to suffer their lives in a caged box of an office. You know, people realizing that they wanted to do what they wanna do for a living that they don’t have to settle.

You know, that life is more precious than they realize. Like there’s all sorts of really cool things that have emerged from this experience. And yet, you know, some of it can be perceived as as negative as well. 

Laura Dawn: Mm-hmm yeah. It’s change, change brings challenge and also opportunity. And then it’s also how we orient around it.

You know, that there is a lot of opportunity that’s emerged through COVID and like systems that don’t work are falling apart. So it’s like why we let’s not go back to normal. Let’s actually go into a new era a 

Tara Divina: hundred percent. I mean, that was my prayer. When all of this started was let us. Start something new here.

Let us use this breakdown for a breakthrough and not just rebuild the house of cards that Saturn will no doubt blow down anyways, 

Laura Dawn: but we’re always in times of transition, like anything more specific that people should be paying attention to right now? 

Tara Divina: Well, this is a powerful time in that a lot of the planets are in very strong and powerful positions, which is not always the case.

And when that happens, it is a more potent time for things to manifest. Usually good things, you know, sometimes strong planets can. Lead for things to manifest that may, maybe don’t appear good at first, maybe become good later, but regardless, it’s a time where more is moving and shaken. That said, if you are someone who’s sitting on an idea on an idea, you’re about ready to launch something.

You’re thinking of moving forward. You’re right on the edge. This is one of those moments where it’s good to bring things forward. You know, there’s certain periods where it’s good to lay low and, and hold back a little bit. Maybe the period is more geared towards ancestral healing or inner work. This is a moment where the outer work can take place in a really good way.

And so if you’ve been feeling that call that inspiration, that readiness. This is a time to trust and to go. So 

Laura Dawn: as people are hearing this, what can they do? You know, how do we, we strengthen this capacity? I know it was like courage building because it takes courage to leap into the unknown. But anything you can say that would help 

Tara Divina: people pray, grieve and be creative.

Those are my three most important pieces of guidance. If we keep praying for what we want, we’ll keep moving forward. If we keep grieving the things that we’ve lost, we’ll keep moving forward. and if we’re creative, we’re gonna have a really amazing fun time doing it. Right. And we’re gonna leave a legacy and we’re gonna do something that really matters to us.

So that’s my advice is pray, grieve it out and get creating. What else is there to do? That’s so fun. Really. It’s like the theme of my life right 

Laura Dawn: now. I’m like 

Tara Divina: praying, grieving and just creating. 

Laura Dawn: It’s like so funny. I’m curious. Can I put you on the spot and just ask you, you know, what are the prayers that you’re holding for your life right now?

Tara Divina: Oh well, I’m embarking on a new journey of family. I’m engaged and will be marrying the most amazing. Man, and we will be living part-time with two amazing daughters, which is a whole new adventure for me. We’re just about to begin having our first home together, which is also something that is very imminent.

So I have a big prayer for all of that to be harmonious for me to learn all the lessons really gracefully, to step into this new role of wife and stepmother in a way that really benefits the people around me and brings joy to my heart. These are some really, really big prayers for me and all, while I continue to be an entrepreneur, who’s scaling a business, you know, there’s just so much that I’m holding right now.

All very positive change. And so it’s all, it’s the ultimate prayer around all of it is for me to bust through all of my personal limitations, around joy and success and allow myself to embrace all the love and abundance that is coming my way. 

Laura Dawn: Hmm. I love that. Do we have time for another question? I’m really curious.

Yes. Yeah. Are we, are we on a time? Okay, great. I was like, let’s try to keep this like pretty concise, but now that we’re talking, I’m like, okay. There’s, there’s more, I know. How do you work with the medicine in your own life as an entrepreneur and how does it inform, you know, decisions that you make and visions that you hold and the way that you step out with different offerings and how is medicine informing the way you show up as a leader and an entre.

Tara Divina: The medicine keeps me in line with my truth and keeps me in the highest of integrity with my own alignment. Right? So let’s, for example, say that I am thinking of putting out a program that would make me a bunch of money. But you know, maybe there’s some small little voice saying, Hey, I don’t know about this.

You know, if I sit with the medicine, it’s gonna become really clear whether it’s an alignment for me to do that or not, you know, and I won’t be able to fool myself into taking. What appears to be an easy path in favor of a scarier path that maybe is oriented in the right direction. So medicine keeps me doing the things that scare me and helps me have more courage to do that.

Because the reality is if I’m not constantly doing things that push the edge of my comfort level, probably not growing, I’m probably not really on my path, my DMA, my purpose, and these ceremonial settings, these prayers, these medicines, they keep me moving forward and growing, which I believe is the most important thing.

Hmm. 

Laura Dawn: I totally feel that way. It’s like the medicine keeps you honest. But it also brings so much clarity. You know, I feel like she offers me so much guidance around like next steps and like dreaming into what’s possible and really expanding those boundaries of possibility. And even giving me that meadow awareness around, oh, if I want to operate at that level, I really need to think at that level.

And that informs how I show up and how my day to day reality looks like. So it’s like so informative on every 

Tara Divina: level. Absolutely. Well, and it gets us in our prayer, which is, you know, it helps us find the better prayer, find the aligned prayer and pray that prayer, and then helps that prayer get answered, which is also such an amazing tool in all of our lives, but our businesses mm-hmm

Laura Dawn: Yeah. Do you have any programs coming up that you wanna share? I. I highly highly recommend people working with you. I’ve we woven you into my own programs before as guest speaker. And, you know, you’re just, you’re such a badass on every level and I just love you and the way that you, you lead. So what you got on the radar, anything we wanna know about?

Tara Divina: Yes. I actually have a brand new version of one of my signature programs called right. To sell your magic. And it’s all about how to take your magical spiritual shamonic ceremonial, esoteric self, and your gifts, and put it into words that other people can relate to that will help them identify you as the answer to their prayers or your offerings or your product.

And so it will literally help you be able to write amazing posts, amazing sales pages, amazing emails that you feel proud of that feel like a work of art and not some sort. Compromised marketing Bri. Right? You’ll get to be really proud of them and will help you make a lot more sales and be a lot more successful as an entrepreneur.

And pretty much for, it’s been really funny, like more and more. All of my clients are entrepreneurs who are also engaged in some form of, you know, plant medicine, facilitation, or mm-hmm plant medicine, healing, or psychedelics. And it’s really just my favorite thing to empower all of you, all of those people to be able to translate that so that more people can benefit from the.

It’s like there’s so much great help out there and to be able to connect everyone to, it brings me so much happiness. So that program is starting in just a few weeks and is enrolling. Now. I freaking 

Laura Dawn: love you. Anything else that you wanna share before we wrap up? 

Tara Divina: Okay. I love you too so much. This has been so much fun.

Yeah. If you’re interested in learning more about anything that we’ve discussed here today, you can find out all about me. My writing course, my music, et cetera. That’s all@taradavina.com. The only thing is my astrology lives on a different website. If you’re interested in that, you can go to visionary readings dot.

And check out my schedule. If you’d like to jump in to get a reading, I don’t do that many anymore these days, but there are always a few slots open here and there. 

Laura Dawn: Visionary readings.com. That’s awesome. Highly recommend it. I love having you in my life. Thank you so much for just, yeah. All your ways.

You’ve been such good medicine for me over the years, and I’m just so grateful for you. 

Tara Divina: And you’ve been such a deep inspiration of all the things I care most about. I’m so deeply grateful for you. You inspire me as a friend, as a wisdom carrier, as a creative. I’m just so deeply moved by you on a regular basis.

And I just wanna say, I cannot wait to hear the new music coming 

Laura Dawn: through you. Yay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I love you. I love you too. 

Tara Divina: Yay. Yay. . 

Laura Dawn: That was great. I do think we should do this regularly. 

Tara Divina: Oh my God. That was I’m down. Are you kidding? Bring, bring it on. I love chatting with you where maybe we just do 

Laura Dawn: like a, a, like, it’s just like a 15 minute, beginning of every month.

Like this is the astrology. 

Tara Divina: totally. Here’s what’s up. Yeah, exactly. Oh my God. I love it. 

Laura Dawn: Okay. Love, I hope you have a great rest of your day. You too. 

Tara Divina: Keep me posted on all the things, please. I 

Laura Dawn: will, I wanna know what’s up. I will. Everything’s aligning and I’m and I’m also just needing to like, yeah, hold the strong prayer, but also hold it lightly and just feel like it’s gonna unfold the way it’s meant to be.

Totally. Mm-hmm. . It’s good. Still. Yeah. We’ll, we’ll talk more about the, the relationship it’s actually, I was like, okay. Forget the thing I said about relationships. I totally . I totally wanna know all 

Tara Divina: about my, my little life. I’m get play with you, but it’s her podcast. 

Laura Dawn: Okay. But it was more from the place of like, oh, you said I had good relationship karma.

So I always just feel at ease with that. Yeah, 

Tara Divina: it’s true. And you don’t really have a problem finding people to date it’s true. 

Laura Dawn: not a thing, but I’ve been calling in like the next level relationship on that level of like, okay, how good can it possibly get? Like how incredible can it get? Can it get so good that it’s like, oh my freaking God, like this is possible in relationships.

Tara Divina: Apparently , 

Laura Dawn: totally, I really appreciate you. I really appreciate you too. Okay. I’ll let you know when I 

Tara Divina: release it. Okay. Okay. I can’t wait. Love you. Love you. Bye bye.